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[lovepony0201]

I got a letter from Portfolio Recovery Associates and I sent them a VOD letter within 30 days. I received the following in response to my VOD letter:

January 20, 2009
Dear (me):
Re: Verification Information Concerning PRA Account/Reference No.: XXXXXXX
Seller/Creditor:MBNA/Bank of America/XXXX

The following information is being provided in response to your recent communication concerning the account referenced above.

Account Number XXXX and its proceeds were sold, assigned and transferred by the Seller to Portfolio Recovery Associates, LLC on 01/23/2008. At the time of the sale, the Seller provided an electronic fild of its business records concerning this account.  According to the Seller's records, there was due and payable from (me) to the Seller in the sum of $2248.88 with respect to this account, as of 01/23/2008, there being no known un-credited payments, just counterclaims, or offsets against this account at the date of its sale.

Additional Information:

Account holder's Name Provided by Seller: (me)
Account holder's Last 4 Digits of SSN: (mine)
Date Account Opened Provided by Seller: 6/14/2000
Current Outstanding Balance: $2419.43

Contact us toll-free at 1-800-772-1413 to discuss payment arrangements.


Then I got a letter from them that states the following:

February 16, 2009

Dear (me):
Re: Dispute Investigation
PRA Account/Reference No.: XXXXXX

In our previous letter to you, we requested that you send our company additional information pertaining to the account referenced above so that the Disputes Department could complete the investigation of the alleged dispute.

To date, we have not received this information and cannot complete the investigation.

Since we have not received this infformation, we are terminating the disputes investigation pertaining to this account and our copany will no longer treat this acount as a disputed account.

The account is being returned to the collection floor and our representatives will be instructed to pursue the outstanding balance due on this account.

If you have any questions, please contact the Disputes Department at 1-800-772-1413 ext. 10181.

Sincerely,

Scumbags

I have a couple of questions:
1. Was the first letter considered continued collection activity in violation of the FDCPA?
2. Is their validation sufficient?
3. What do I need to do about the two different amounts that they are requesting?
4. Am I obligated to give them this mystery info that was never requested?
5. What should my response be? ITS?

Thanks for the help.

[maylaur]

I don't see two different amounts being requested.  It looks to me they are stating how much was due when the "Seller" turned it over to them, and then the current amount since PRA acquired the account.

As for further information...I would think that if they believe you are the one who owes this debt and they know how your information, they shouldn't need anything else from you.  The responsibility of providing validation is on them, not you.

It doesn't look like they obtained anything from the OC, either.  Sending you the information they have on file is not enough... it is insufficient for them to say "you owe such-and-such amount because we say you do". 

[Flyingifr]

Those letters barely meet the standards of FDCPA for VOD, but if that's all they have their case in Court will be very weak.

[Rottweiler]

I would raise the question of whether a record transferred to a JDB at sale would then excuse that same JDB from going back to the OC to get the information.  Since the account was in collections--and presumably defaulted--at the time of sale, the situation that would exist with a factorer is not applicable.  Certainly we do not know whether Portfolio bought the account directly from MBNA/BoA or not.  Since it's a common occurrence that a debt broker gets these accounts first for repackage and resale, it's possible that Portfolio is at least one more degree of separation from MBNA/BoA than the letter implies and therefore MBNA/BoA should have directly provided the information; Portfolio admits taking it from their own files.

Now, if Portfolio did buy the account directly from the OC?  The information and the letter are sufficient.

As for that second letter?  Now we have a problem:

Then I got a letter from them that states the following:

February 16, 2009

Dear (me):
Re: Dispute Investigation
PRA Account/Reference No.: XXXXXX

In our previous letter to you, we requested that you send our company additional information pertaining to the account referenced above so that the Disputes Department could complete the investigation of the alleged dispute.

To date, we have not received this information and cannot complete the investigation.

Since we have not received this infformation, we are terminating the disputes investigation pertaining to this account and our copany will no longer treat this acount as a disputed account.

The account is being returned to the collection floor and our representatives will be instructed to pursue the outstanding balance due on this account.

If you have any questions, please contact the Disputes Department at 1-800-772-1413 ext. 10181.

Sincerely,

Scumbags

Now they have gone too far, IMHO:  Even if they had requested additional information (and you say they did not), the fact is that a DV is NOT to be treated as if it were a report of ID Theft or even an FCRA dispute.  There is no legal requirement for the consumer to hand the collector one's name, rank, serial number and address for their mother-in-law in order for them to be obligated to get verification nor should they even imply that a DV is such a "dispute".

As for how actionable this is?  That is a reasonable question.  Unfortunately, they can assume that they have validated and therefore the account can be returned to the floor unless the consumer tells them: 

1.)  The validation fails to meet the minimal standards of the FDCPA, §809 [§1692g]; or,

2.)  They are not the person whom they are seeking.

In either case, they would still not be required to ask for more information nor do they have the right to demand it of the consumer.  The collector is required to take the consumer's word at face value when deciding whether to continue to collect or not if they are told "You are mistaken.".  After all, they DO have the choice to NOT "work" the account if there is any question as to whether they did find the correct person and/or they do not want to and/or care to do the validation job the law requires of them.

Just a thought...

[Mischievous Smurfy]

January 20, 2009
Dear (me):
Re: Verification Information Concerning PRA Account/Reference No.: XXXXXXX
Seller/Creditor:MBNA/Bank of America/XXXX

The following information is being provided in response to your recent communication concerning the account referenced above.

Account Number XXXX and its proceeds were sold, assigned and transferred by the Seller to Portfolio Recovery Associates, LLC on 01/23/2008. At the time of the sale, the Seller provided an electronic fild of its business records concerning this account.  According to the Seller's records, there was due and payable from (me) to the Seller in the sum of $2248.88 with respect to this account, as of 01/23/2008, there being no known un-credited payments, just counterclaims, or offsets against this account at the date of its sale.

Additional Information:

Account holder's Name Provided by Seller: (me)
Account holder's Last 4 Digits of SSN: (mine)
Date Account Opened Provided by Seller: 6/14/2000
Current Outstanding Balance: $2419.43

Contact us toll-free at 1-800-772-1413 to discuss payment arrangements. 

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am in receipt of your letter dated January 20, 2009 in which you clearly state that in response to my request you looked at your database to make sure that it continues to display the information contained in your initial letter dated [date].

This is nice but it does not suffice as verification.  As such your letter dated January 20, 2009 is continued collection activity without having provided verification in violation of the FDCPA.  It is also missleading in its claim to be adequate verification.

I look forward to your next violation and I am formatting my lawsuit against you as we speak.

Thank You

lovepony 0201

February 16, 2009

Dear (me):
Re: Dispute Investigation
PRA Account/Reference No.: XXXXXX

In our previous letter to you, we requested that you send our company additional information pertaining to the account referenced above so that the Disputes Department could complete the investigation of the alleged dispute.

To date, we have not received this information and cannot complete the investigation.

Since we have not received this infformation, we are terminating the disputes investigation pertaining to this account and our copany will no longer treat this account as a disputed account.

The account is being returned to the collection floor and our representatives will be instructed to pursue the outstanding balance due on this account.

If you have any questions, please contact the Disputes Department at 1-800-772-1413 ext. 10181.

Sincerely,

Scumbags

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am in receipt of your letter dated February 16, 2009.  Thank You for your continued violations. 

Lets review the violations in just this letter...

"In our previous letter to you, we requested that you send our company additional information pertaining to the account referenced above so that the Disputes Department could complete the investigation of the alleged dispute."

First, you never requested additional information pertaining to any account.  This is a False and deceptive statement.

Second, there is no requirement that I send you anything other than the dispute, which this letter and your letter dated January 20, 2009 clearly indicate you have received.  Your implication that I am required to do so is both false and deceptive.

Third, if you do not possess information sufficient to verify that I owe this alleged debt and/or the amount alleged then you cannot continue to attempt to collect this debt from me.

I am not required that I prove I don't owe this debt, it is incumbent upon YOU to verify that I do owe this alleged debt and/or the amount you allege is owed.



"To date, we have not received this information and cannot complete the investigation."

You have not received it because it was never requested.  Nor is there any required that I provide you with anything.  Thank you for admitting, in writting no less, that you cannot verify I owe the alleged debt.


"Since we have not received this infformation, we are terminating the disputes investigation pertaining to this account and our copany will no longer treat this account as a disputed account."

This is nice, however it is not an option available to you under the FDCPA.    The only two available results of a consumer disputing the debt are as follows:

Discontinue collection efforts due to the fact that you cannot verify that I owe this alleged debt.  I might point out that in the sentence previous to this one you admit in writting that you cannot verify.

Provide me with verification that you "Obtained" from the original creditor.

There is no such animal as a frivolous dispute under FDCPA nor are you allowed to declare that by default I owe this alleged debt due to a failure to participate in your "investigation".

This statement will be cited as yet another violation as it is both false and deceptive.

"The account is being returned to the collection floor and our representatives will be instructed to pursue the outstanding balance due on this account."

Again, very nice, but you just told me that your intention is to resume collection activity despite the fact that you admit in this same letter that you cannot verify that I owe the alleged debt.

Again, this will be cited as yet another count of false and deceptive activity as cannot resume collection activity unless or until you provide me with verification "obtained" from the original creditor and "forwarded" to me.


Thank you dearly for your warning that you have no intention of complying with the FDCPA.  I will begin formatting the complaint to file in my District Federal court and by all means feel free to contact me by mail with your further violations.  I will be happy to add them to the complaint on receipt.

Thank You

lovepony0201

[jaysharpmajor]

There are two standard forms that portfolio sends out. I got the exact same letters. And both of them probably include "detach and mail with your payment" coupons.....these are clear cut proof of further collection activity.

[Mischievous Smurfy]

Oh good I was just thinking of your thread ... you saved me the trouble of hunting you down and directing you here.